LIFE Is Short...Buy THE Car.

[DCIV]

I was saying that’s what that device looks like to me. You just need to relocated it. Any device is just a deterrent unless they can’t find it. Then they fucked.


Coop

[DCIV]

I think a line lock so the wheels don’t move would make it pretty hard to move. A removable steering wheel with the wheels locked all the way one direction. A remote kill switch so even if they get in it will not start.

Just some ideas.


Coop

[Jeff V.]

That's a really common style of OBD plug. Just get one from a junkyard and swap it out. Push the real one up under the dash somewhere.

[Chris GTO TT]

Am I understanding this correct, you can plug in something to the OBD port on FCA vehicles and just drive off with them?

[ChargerX3]

Am I understanding this correct, you can plug in something to the OBD port on FCA vehicles and just drive off with them?

Oh, its not limited to FCA. You might be surprised to see yours. See the below short list.

This is a list of car models identified in the search results as potentially vulnerable to being compromised through their OBD2 port:

Acura: Acura vehicles
Audi: A3, A4, A6
BMW: 730d, X6, X7, and others
Chevrolet: Silverado, Equinox
Citroen: DS4 CrossBack
Dodge: Charger SRT Hellcat, Charger HEMI, Challenger, Ram 1500
Ford: F-150, F-250 SuperCrew, F-350 SuperCrew, Galaxy, Eco-Sport, and others
Genesis: Genesis vehicles
Honda: Accord, Civic, CR-V, CR-V 4WD, HR-V
Hyundai: Santa Fe CRDi, and others
Infiniti: Q50, Q50 4WD, and others
Jaguar: Jaguar vehicles
Kia: Optima, Sportage, Sportage 4WD, Rio, Forte, and others
Land Rover: Range Rover 4WD, Range Rover Sport 4WD, Evoque
Lexus: RX 450h
Mazda: CX-5
Mercedes-Benz: Mercedes-Benz vehicles
Mini: Clubman
Mitsubishi: Outlander
Nissan: Maxima, Qashqai, Leaf, and others
Opel: Ampera
Porsche: Porsche vehicles
Ram: 3500 crew cab long-wheelbase 4WD
Renault: Traffic
Rolls Royce: Rolls Royce vehicles
Ssangyong: Tivoli XDi
Subaru: Levorg
Tesla: Tesla vehicles (though Tesla has addressed some vulnerabilities)
Toyota: Camry, Corolla, RAV4
Volkswagen: Golf GTD, Touran 5T

[ChargerX3]

That's a really common style of OBD plug. Just get one from a junkyard and swap it out. Push the real one up under the dash somewhere.

I've contemplated that idea and don't hate it. Knowing me i forget its tucked and take my car in for a recall and screw things up.

[Jeff V.]

What's the worst that happens? They plug their tool in and it doesn't work. They call you, you remember what you changed, and tell them where to find the real plug.

[Chris GTO TT]

Am I understanding this correct, you can plug in something to the OBD port on FCA vehicles and just drive off with them?

Oh, its not limited to FCA. You might be surprised to see yours. See the below short list.

This is a list of car models identified in the search results as potentially vulnerable to being compromised through their OBD2 port:

Acura: Acura vehicles
Audi: A3, A4, A6
BMW: 730d, X6, X7, and others
Chevrolet: Silverado, Equinox
Citroen: DS4 CrossBack
Dodge: Charger SRT Hellcat, Charger HEMI, Challenger, Ram 1500
Ford: F-150, F-250 SuperCrew, F-350 SuperCrew, Galaxy, Eco-Sport, and others
Genesis: Genesis vehicles
Honda: Accord, Civic, CR-V, CR-V 4WD, HR-V
Hyundai: Santa Fe CRDi, and others
Infiniti: Q50, Q50 4WD, and others
Jaguar: Jaguar vehicles
Kia: Optima, Sportage, Sportage 4WD, Rio, Forte, and others
Land Rover: Range Rover 4WD, Range Rover Sport 4WD, Evoque
Lexus: RX 450h
Mazda: CX-5
Mercedes-Benz: Mercedes-Benz vehicles
Mini: Clubman
Mitsubishi: Outlander
Nissan: Maxima, Qashqai, Leaf, and others
Opel: Ampera
Porsche: Porsche vehicles
Ram: 3500 crew cab long-wheelbase 4WD
Renault: Traffic
Rolls Royce: Rolls Royce vehicles
Ssangyong: Tivoli XDi
Subaru: Levorg
Tesla: Tesla vehicles (though Tesla has addressed some vulnerabilities)
Toyota: Camry, Corolla, RAV4
Volkswagen: Golf GTD, Touran 5T

Sure but don't they need your fob and then plug something into the obd port?

[Jeff V.]

As far as I know there's two kinds of common attacks.

First is the relay attack. They capture the fob signal inside the house and use equipment to relay it to the car. As Steve said, that's mitigated with Faraday pouches.

Second is using the diagnostic capabilities to program brand new keys. Look at it this way. If I was able to figure out how to do it on my Ford bench setup, then I'm sure people who sell tools to professional thieves can figure it out.

[Chris GTO TT]

Right but don't you have to cycle the vehicle into the on position for that?

[aaronatstate]

Whew, my Stealth is not on that list!

[Jeff V.]

Right but don't you have to cycle the vehicle into the on position for that?

Think about how keyless ignition works in legitimate service scenarios. If you're either programming a car from scratch with new modules that haven't learned the keys yet, or you're starting with a car where someone has lost all the keys (or just doesn't have them, like a repo situation) the scan tool has to have a way to wake the car up to start the process of learning keys.

It doesn't help that security was barely an afterthought until about 4-5 years ago. The manufacturers couldn't be bothered with the cost and complexity to do it right. Even now it's more about keeping customers out so they can charge for software based features. They don't care about theft until it gets so bad insurance companies just refuse to offer coverage at all. Look at what happened to Kia and Land Rover.

[vr4]

What's the worst that happens? They plug their tool in and it doesn't work. They call you, you remember what you changed, and tell them where to find the real plug.

as long as he doesnt do what i would.....something to pop whatever it is they plug into it. i really like the idea of a capacitor.

[Jeff V.]

I love that idea too. But then there's that 'forgot I built that' scenario.

Like you take the car in for something and they decide to check your codes to be 'helpful' or something. And you blow up their scan tool.

The one time I took my white Corvette to the Chevy dealer to get a mandatory state inspection they plugged in this wifi OBDongle to check the car into the service lane. They weren't actually doing anything. It was just the service writers uploading data to the dealer management system instead of copying it manually. I doubt that was a cheap tool.

[ChargerX3]

What's the worst that happens? They plug their tool in and it doesn't work. They call you, you remember what you changed, and tell them where to find the real plug.

Or they spend 5 hours testing and removing my dash only to determine I created a clone harness and they now need to charge another 5 hours to put back together.

[ChargerX3]

As far as I know there's two kinds of common attacks.

First is the relay attack. They capture the fob signal inside the house and use equipment to relay it to the car. As Steve said, that's mitigated with Faraday pouches.

Second is using the diagnostic capabilities to program brand new keys. Look at it this way. If I was able to figure out how to do it on my Ford bench setup, then I'm sure people who sell tools to professional thieves can figure it out.

Correct, those are the most common and very effective. Also my list is only of the most well known or attempted to steal cars. The list is likely twice as long.

I haven't looked, but is your Vette susceptible?

[vr4]

What's the worst that happens? They plug their tool in and it doesn't work. They call you, you remember what you changed, and tell them where to find the real plug.

Or they spend 5 hours testing and removing my dash only to determine I created a clone harness and they now need to charge another 5 hours to put back together.

they wouldnt spend that time without getting authorization from you and at that point you would remember doing it

[ChargerX3]

I would sure hope so. I imagine I would get hit with a PITA charge though.

[DCIV]

Move the damn port. You’re not gonna forget. They arnt gonna take apart your dash.


Coop

[vr4]

Move the damn port. You’re not gonna forget. They arnt gonna take apart your dash.


Coop

coop in here sounding like me