Gas vs Electric

[Duck Vader]

Interesting video by Engineering Explained on the emissions of gas vs electric cars.

[Chris GTO TT]

I haven't watched it just yet, but I do know electric cars sound like a great idea for the environment until you realize just how terrible battery production is for the environment.

[Chris GTO TT]

Now that I've watched it, he kind of completely leaves out the mining for all the necessary things to actually build a battery. In fact he basically just ignored the ecological impact of mining as a whole.

I certainly agree, an electric car is a more 'green' way to go but it really felt like he was bypassing some of the very real issues with battery production.

[Duck Vader]

You have to mine for a lot of the parts of a standard car as well.

[Duck Vader]

That being said, the lithium mining is really not that bad in comparison to things like oil. It is the mining of the other stuff that hurts the environment more. I am going to do some digging and see if I can find some trusted sources on the true impact from the other materials.

[Chris GTO TT]

Absolutely true however my understanding is mining for things like cobalt and nickel is less environmentally friendly than mining for iron an aluminum. Though aluminum is much more difficult (less environmentally friendly) extract than iron.

[Chris GTO TT]

If we're totally honest it's not the drilling for oil that's bad it's the associated accidents and spills. If it were possible to guarantee no spills most wells have a fairly small footprint. At least that's how I understand it, but it's likely I've just bought into the oil industry propaganda :d ontknow:

[Duck Vader]

Location of oil, how it is dug up (depends on location), transportation to/from, refining it, burning it, etc. It all adds up and all adds impacts.

[Chris GTO TT]

Yep same for ore too

[alienviking]

[quote=""Duck Vader""]Location of oil, how it is dug up (depends on location), transportation to/from, refining it, burning it, etc. It all adds up and all adds impacts.[/quote]

All of that is true for battery production as well. Heck the batteries have been shipped all over the place before the final car is sold.

[Duck Vader]

Not sure if you guys can open these - let me know - they are some scientific journal articles I found on studies done comparing types of cars:

Comparative economic and environmental analysis of conventional, hybrid and electric vehicles e the case study of Greece

https://ac-els-cdn-com.ezproxy.lib.uwst ... ffef7fb348

Based on published data from various sources an economic and environmental comparison of a conventional, hybrid and electric vehicle – currently available at the Greek market – is performed. The production and utilization stages of the vehicles are taken into consideration. Three different electricity generation scenarios-high, medium and low carbon – are investigated. According to the comparison hybrid and electric cars exhibit advantages over conventional. In a carbon free electricity generation scenario the environmental benefits of electric cars are significant since 55.2% of the total Greenhouse gas emissions and 61.4% of the total Air Pollution emissions are stemming from conventional car; whereas 6.85% and 5.76% of total air emissions produced are emanating from electric car. It is shown that the environmental impact of electric car use depends on the source of electricity.

Economic and environmental comparison of conventional, hybrid, electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles

https://ac-els-cdn-com.ezproxy.lib.uwst ... b91168e9d1

Published data from various sources are used to perform economic and environmental comparisons of four types of vehicles: conventional, hybrid, electric and hydrogen fuel cell. The production and utilization stages of the vehicles are taken into consideration. The comparison is based on a mathematical procedure, which includes normalization of economic indicators (prices of vehicles and fuels during the vehicle life and driving range) and environmental indicators (greenhouse gas and air pollution emissions), and evaluation of an optimal relationship between the types of vehicles in the fleet. According to the comparison, hybrid and electric cars exhibit advantages over the other types. The economic efficiency and environmental impact of electric car use depends substantially on the source of the electricity. If the electricity comes from renewable energy sources, the electric car is advantageous compared to the hybrid. If electricity comes from fossil fuels, the electric car remains competitive only if the electricity is generated on board. It is shown that, if electricity is generated with an efficiency of about 50–60% by a gas turbine engine connected to a high-capacity battery and an electric motor, the electric car becomes advantageous. Implementation of fuel cells stacks and ion conductive membranes into gas turbine cycles permits electricity generation to increase to the above-mentioned level and air pollution emissions to decrease. It is concluded that the electric car with on-board electricity generation represents a significant and flexible advance in the development of efficient and ecologically benign vehicles.

A new comparison between the life cycle greenhouse gas emissions of battery electric vehicles and internal combustion vehicles

https://ac-els-cdn-com.ezproxy.lib.uwst ... 3392c7792d

Electric vehicles have recently been gaining increasing worldwide interest as a promising potential long-term solution to sustainable personal mobility; in particular, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) offer zero tailpipe emissions. However, their true ability to contribute to greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions reductions can only be properly assessed by comparing a life cycle assessment of their GHG emissions with a similar assessment for conventional internal combustion vehicles (ICVs).

This paper presents an analysis for vehicles typically expected to be introduced in 2015 in two example markets (the UK and California), taking into account the impact of three important factors:

•
Like-for-like vehicle comparison and effect of real-world driving conditions.

•
Accounting for the GHG emissions associated with meeting the additional electricity demand for charging the batteries.

•
GHG emissions associated with vehicle manufacture, disposal, etc.


This work demonstrates that all of these factors are important and emphasises that it is therefore crucial to clearly define the context when presenting conclusions about the relative GHG performance of BEVs and ICVs – such relative performance depends on a wide range of factors, including the marginal regional grid GHG intensity, vehicle size, driving pattern, loading, etc.

Highlights
► Develops new insights into the life cycle GHG emissions of electric vehicles. ► Addresses like-for-like vehicle comparison and effect of real-world driving. ► Accounts for marginal GHG intensity of the electricity used to charge EVs. ► Accounts for the GHG emissions associated with vehicle manufacture and disposal.