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McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:19 pm
by Vitamin A
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns
PARIS (AP) -- The McLaren team was fined $100 million and stripped of its points in the constructors' standings Thursday in the spying scandal that has rocked the sport

McLaren, which leads the current drivers' and constructors' standings, was punished by the World Motor Sports Council for allegedly using leaked secret technical documents belonging to F1 rival Ferrari.

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Team drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, currently 1-2 in the championship standings, were not punished and can continue to compete for the season title.

``Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged,'' the Italian team said in a statement.

The $100 million penalty includes McLaren's expected loss of income, and McLaren still could be penalized for the 2008 championship, FIA said in a statement after a hearing.

``We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home,'' McLaren team chief Ron Dennis said. ``The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven today.''

McLaren escaped the harshest possible penalty, as FIA could have kicked the team and its drivers out of the 2007 and 2008 championships. In December, FIA will decide on any possible sanctions against McLaren for the 2008 season.

FIA said it did not penalize McLaren's drivers ``due to exceptional circumstances'' because they provided evidence in exchange for immunity.

``We believe we have grounds for appeal,'' team chief Ron Dennis said. ``But of course we are going to wait for the findings of the FIA which are going to be published. The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and next season.''

The case broke open in July when a 780-page technical dossier on Ferrari cars was found at the home of McLaren's chief designer, Mike Coughlan, who later was suspended. Ferrari mechanic Nigel Stepney, who allegedly supplied the documents, was fired.

Rookie English driver Hamilton leads the standings with 92 points, followed by two-time F1 champion Alonso of Spain with 89. Ferrari teammates Kimi Raikkonen (74) and Felipe Massa (69) are third and fourth. Four races remain in the season, starting with Sunday's Belgian Grand Prix.

Alonso and Hamilton finished 1-2 in Sunday's Italian Grand Prix -- at Ferrari's home track of Monza -- to extend McLaren's lead in the constructors' championship to 23 points. McLaren had 166, Ferrari 143.

Under Thursday's ruling, McLaren loses all its constructors' points and is ineligible from scoring any more in the season's final races.

The World Motor Sport Council ruled in July that McLaren was guilty of fraudulent conduct for possessing the Ferrari documents but did not punish the team because there was insufficient evidence the material was misused. However, the council warned that McLaren could be kicked out of the 2007 and 2008 series if it is found in the future that the information has been used ``to the detriment of the championship.''

FIA announced last week it was calling a new hearing of the council after ``new evidence'' had emerged.

Among those appearing at the hearing before the 26-member council were Hamilton, Dennis and McLaren test driver Pedro De La Rosa. Alonso did not attend.

Others attending included Ross Brawn, Ferrari's former technical director, and team officials from Red Bull, Williams and Spyker.

FIA president Max Mosley sent letters to Alonso, Hamilton and De La Rosa on Aug. 31, saying the sport's regulator had been told that ``one or more McLaren drivers may be in possession ... of written evidence relevant to this investigation.''

Mosley asked the three drivers to cooperate ``in the interests of the sport and the championship'' and offered them amnesty in return. Mosley also wrote that ``serious consequences would follow'' if they were later found to ``have withheld any potentially relevant information.''

The case against McLaren reportedly consists of a 166-page dossier that includes e-mail exchanges between De la Rosa and Alonso, as well as details of phone and text message traffic between Coughlan and Stepney supplied to FIA by authorities in Italy.

Separately, McLaren was notified Saturday that it is being investigated in a separate criminal inquiry in Italy. Dennis and five other team personnel are reportedly under investigation.

Those allegations stem from Ferrari's criminal case against Stepney for allegedly placing a mysterious white powder on the gas tanks of the team's cars before the Monaco GP, in a supposed sabotage attempt.

Associated Press writers Raf Casert in Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium, and Samuel Petrequin in Paris contributed to this report.
Sucks for Mclaren for getting caught. :shrug:

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:35 pm
by Macky
I think the decision was unfair. It was proven they were "in possession", but actually "using" the technical data, that is still a gray area. Of course Ferrari has the power of persuasion, as they are both a charismatic as well as a political team. Hell, even F1 boss Bernie Eccelstone suggested to the FIA council to "hear" Ferrari out after the first set of hearings last July.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:19 pm
by Macky
here is a link to a CNN video prior to today's hearing. Even Jackie Stewart believes that the governing body handling the investigation is biased to Ferrari:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sp ... t.intv.cnn

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:22 pm
by Terry
Either way I'm sure they're more pissed about the points than the money. $100 mil is nothing to them.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:35 pm
by Macky
[quote=""Terry""]Either way I'm sure they're more pissed about the points than the money. $100 mil is nothing to them.[/quote]

yep. Ive read somewhere that McLaren's budget every season is upwards of about $700 million. One of the CNN videos even states that the fine is just about a fifth of their (assumed annual) budget.

its the points that will hurt because that will mean their garage will be next to the bottom feeders - Super Aguri, Spyker and BAR Honda - next year.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:13 am
by JagdStealth
I'm not exactly sure what the hell kind of advantage this would give McLaren? I guess in the form of technical changes to their cars? other than modifying their cars, it's not like they are going to be able to learn some secret weakness to the Ferrari car or something...

I used to watch every F1 race, go to a cool Italian joint up in Huntington Beach and watch 'em live, but the last few years are just all about Politics...kinda lame.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:17 pm
by alienviking
Actually this season has been worth watching. It has been one of the best in a very long time.

That said.. there is no doubt that there is a Ferrari bias. Granted, I am a sworn Ferrari hater and McLaren fan but hey, I'll keep believing this until the day I die! There is also a lot more to this story than we know right now. Just got this link sent to me by another huge F1 fan:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19649.html

The story today was that Alonso wanted Hamilton off the team for going to the FIA about qualifying. He didn't get it so he wanted to rat the team out.

Steve Matchett said that if he were on the team, he would quit rather than work on Alonso's car. Wonder if someone will forget to tighten the wheel nuts or crack a suspension arm or saw through the wing supports?

My predictions: Alonso leaves McLaren (good riddance) and goes to Toyota to replace the waste of air Ralph Schumacher. Nick Heidfelt moves from BMW to McLaren. This results in a musical chairs scenarios among the teams for drivers.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:03 pm
by GTO Assassin
If Alonso goes to Toyota, I'll do a noody run! That just won't happen! Toyota are ions away from getting to the pointy end of the placings. I don't know enough about the fiasco to make a real comment, other than it's a harsh decision they copped.

Scotty

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:30 pm
by Macky
[quote=""alienviking""]Actually this season has been worth watching. It has been one of the best in a very long time.

That said.. there is no doubt that there is a Ferrari bias. Granted, I am a sworn Ferrari hater and McLaren fan but hey, I'll keep believing this until the day I die! There is also a lot more to this story than we know right now. Just got this link sent to me by another huge F1 fan:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19649.html

The story today was that Alonso wanted Hamilton off the team for going to the FIA about qualifying. He didn't get it so he wanted to rat the team out.

Steve Matchett said that if he were on the team, he would quit rather than work on Alonso's car. Wonder if someone will forget to tighten the wheel nuts or crack a suspension arm or saw through the wing supports?

My predictions: Alonso leaves McLaren (good riddance) and goes to Toyota to replace the waste of air Ralph Schumacher. Nick Heidfelt moves from BMW to McLaren. This results in a musical chairs scenarios among the teams for drivers.[/quote]



I agree with everything you just said.

Also, being a longtime McLaren fan aside (I myself got my nickname because of their F1 road car), I do believe that Ferrari - while right up there with McLaren at the top of their game - is severely influential and almost all rulings go in favor of them. Remember the tire fiasco at Indy a few years back? Ferrari won that day - McLaren and all the other Michelin runners were sidelined.

I for one have never seen a negative ruling/decision impact Ferrari in any way, going as far back as the Schumacher era.


And as far as Alonso is concerned, he's a big whiney baby. its pretty obvious he ratted the team out since he didnt have the face to appear with them at the hearings. Heidfeld is very promising and fast, and should complement Hamilton well. together they should be unstoppable next year (if alonso bails, akin to what he did to Renault)

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:43 pm
by GTO Assassin
I wouldn't be mentioning the tyre debarcle (sp?) from the US race in 05. That was purely a safety issue which smacked most teams. But I agree with Ferrari being very influential.

Scotty

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:58 pm
by alienviking
[quote=""GTO Assassin""]If Alonso goes to Toyota, I'll do a noody run! That just won't happen! Toyota are ions away from getting to the pointy end of the placings. I don't know enough about the fiasco to make a real comment, other than it's a harsh decision they copped.

Scotty[/quote]

I don't want to see this. Please don't go there Alonso.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:02 pm
by GTO Assassin
:lol: And I'l do it carrying my spare 99 wing! Eat it bitch! :bird:

Scotty

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:45 pm
by alienviking
Full verdict: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19653.html

Fine is way too steep imo. But they need to take this advice to heart:

Never write when you can speak
Never speak when you can nod
And never ever send email

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:50 pm
by Macky
damn.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:04 pm
by Jeff V.
I don't follow F1, but I'd have loved to see that 780 page book :D

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:46 pm
by Macky
[quote=""Gatecrasher""]I don't follow F1, but I'd have loved to see that 780 page book :D [/quote]

likewise. im interested in the optimal weight distribution of the Ferrari F2007 as well as its braking setup. with that information, one could make a LOT of money setting up race cars :D

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:55 pm
by Jeff V.
Have any of you guys seen this book?

Ferrari Formula 1: Under the Skin of the Championship-Winning F1-2000

256 pages of color and B&W photos going into exhaustive detail on the Ferrari F1-2000 car. Granted, it's 7 years old, but there's no other book on the market that goes into this much depth on a modern F1 car.

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:16 pm
by Macky
sweet book. thanks gate!

Re: McLaren fined $100 Million in F1 Spy Case

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:59 pm
by alienviking