S2000 impressions! (AP1 vs. AP2)

[Synchro]

AP1 ('99 - '03)

Pros:
Suspension balance
Revs
Body lines
Plastic window **

Cons:
Plastic window **
Torque
Tire aspect
Sound system



AP2 ('04 - '08)

Pros:
Interior
Torque
Tire aspect
Sound system

Cons:
Body lines
Suspension balance


** Yes, the plastic window is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that the plastic window has a zip-out section so that you can un-zip the window, letting it fall into the roof tray. Turns the car into a carriage, much like a targa Del Sol (roll the rear window down). This gives you shade from the sun, but gives you the air flow of the 'vert. On the other hand, the back window is PLASTIC. It requires constant maintenance and is hard to see through, even when it's perfectly polished and flattened. Only AP1s from '99 through early '02 had the plastic window. Late model AP1s had the glass window that carries on through the AP2 model. They don't zip out, so you can either have the top up or down - no in-between of the carriage roof.


The gear length is pretty damn tall. It takes all damn day to get through 1st compared to the gears in the AP2. This could just be due to the torque difference (AP2 has a longer stroke, giving it .2L displacement advantage), or it could be due to the fact that the 2L in the AP1 is designed to rev out to 9000 RPMs (AP2 only revs to 8k) and I believe both cars reach the same MPH at the end of 1st. The AP2 is simply quicker.


Suspension balance... Anybody who drives both cars will know what I'm talking about. AP1s are perfectly neutral. 49/51 distribution and suspension tuned for neutral steer. If you give the car gas through a corner, you push. If you turn with light thottle, you steer as if it's on rails. Let off the gas or hit the brake through a corner, you'll either tuck and dodge or you'll oversteer and spin. This car is perfect. The AP2 has been re-tuned for understeer. The weight balance is the same, but the suspension is tuned to give neutral steering when applying the brakes, slight push when coasting, and massive push when under throttle. To combat this, Honda added "Vehicle Stability Control" (you can turn it off) which applies the inside front brake when pushing (plus other things for other conditions). So basically, instead of the car handling neutral by design, it handles neutral by wasting your brakes and eating your energy. AP2's are designed for the average American driver - not enthusiasts. AP1 > AP2.


Tire aspect! OMFG why does the AP1 have these baloons?! 16" wheels with an overall tire diameter of 20"! Combine these huge-ass sidewalls with the super-stiff suspension and you can literally *feel* the car wiggling around! AP2's have 17" wheels with the same 20" diameter, and losing that 1" of sidewall makes all of the difference in the world. AP1s on stock wheels do not feel sure-footed at all. Every time you corner, you can feel the tires go one way and the body go another. Aftermarket wheels are a MUST for any AP1.


Interior and sound system. Both together, because they don't warrant their own topics. The interior is more refined and more functional in the AP2. More pockets, bigger cup holder, nicer appointments, etc. Sound system is "better" because the AP1 has only two speakers, while the AP2 has *eight*. Everything in the AP2 is better, including the dash.



So there ya go. My impressions of the two variants of the S2000. Maybe I'll get to try out a CR next year and see if they're worth a damn. I love my AP1, but it needs new wheels and something to give it more torque (turbo). I wouldn't trade an AP1 for an AP2, but there are some things that make the AP2 better in certain respects. Too bad that suspension isn't one of them (stiffer, but improperly tuned).

[vr4]

my 00 had the speakers behind the headrest. not sure if it was a dealer installed option or not.

ap2 chassis is stiffer. ap1 suspension on an early ap2=best of both worlds.

i prefer the plastic window cause its larger. other than that i agree with you.

[J-Groove]

Another bonus with plastic windows, you can get them repaired!

NO one will repair a glass convertible top. It is ridiculous, it is just not something that is done. You can get it repaired by replacing the section, but if the glue holding the glass to the canvas comes undone you will have to buy a new section.

-John

[Monochrome]

[quote=""Synchro""]I love my AP1, but it needs something to give it more torque (turbo).[/quote]

That was about my only complaint with the Miata. The car had perfect weight distribution making it very fun to drive, but it was severely lacking bawls. Especially compared to my friends s2000 in terms of straight line performance.

The glass rear window is most definitely preferred to the plastic on a daily driven car. Rear defrost is a must in the winter or in any state that has humidity.

[Synchro]

Headrest speakers on an '00 would have to have been a dealer option. I'm not sure they had the same OEM plastic rollbar covers made at that time that could accept speakers. You should take a look at Jenny's '07 and see if they were the same. If so, then I find it highly odd that they didn't just install them from the beginning - instead of waiting for '04.

Chassis is stiffer, but with these baloons they call "tires" it's so hard to tell how much stiffer it is. I don't think there's a night/day difference, and some extra reinforcement will take care of it. Isn't all Honda did was to add some extra/stronger frame braces? I don't ever notice any body twist - just tire slop. I hate these tires, and take every opportunity I can to burn them off around corners (hard to do with the torsen rear diff...car likes to hook up and gooooo).

Plastic rear window *is* bigger by about 20%-25%, but that's all "bottom". All it lets me see is the trunk. Even with the glass window, I can see everything north of the center brake light. Maybe it's my height, but there's no difference for me when it comes to FOV with the smaller glass window. (I can see the trunk lid, all the way up past the horizon)

As for repair - I've actually gotta replace my original top, because I really don't want my car to have a top that was sliced, stitched and patched. You can hardly tell from the outside, but it still bugs me. Combine that with the torture that is trying to polish that rear window from the inside, and I'd much rather just pull the entire top - frame and all - and replace it with an AP2 glass top. Just means I have a legit reason to get the AP2 center console as well! (for the defrost button)

There are about 5,000 Miatas in this area, so occasionally one will like to get revvy with me. I haven't really seen much difference in the low-end between those N/A Miatas and my S2k. Once I go north of 6000 RPM though, they are shifting and I'm hitting peak power. Kinda like the world's worst turbo lag. Honda must have put super light flywheels on these cars, because they neutral-rev almost instantly and take some practice starting on a hill. Never had that issue with either the Miata or the Sky when I test drove 'em.

Go karts.

I'm actually glad these things are still a wee bit out of reach for the younger crowd. Once the price drops much below $15k, we're going to see an S2k ricer explosion here in the PacNW. Plus side: cheaper parts, more ricers in the ER (they don't know how to drive RWD). Down side: everything else.

[vr4]

another neg on the plastic window.....dont put it down in cold temps (55 and lower iirc) or it goes crack.

[Synchro]

Ohhhhh yeah! Forgot about that.

Hooray for vinyl!

Actually, if you just run the heater for a while it should warm up and be pliable, but I'll have to check on that. Maybe get an inverter for the car, and keep a hair drier in the trunk.

[vr4]

[quote=""Synchro""]

Actually, if you just run the heater for a while it should warm up and be pliable, but I'll have to check on that. Maybe get an inverter for the car, and keep a hair drier in the trunk. [/quote]




i could see you doing that. standing in best buy parking lot with a hair dryer heating your back window to put it down for pics. LOL


my old 1.....





what is it about me and red/black cars?

[Synchro]

Damn man, that thing is gorgeous.

I'll be putting a black CF (or fiberglass) hood on mine eventually. Possibly paint the trunk lid black as well. Dunno what it is about skunk stripes, but I've loved them since I was a kid.

[cbehnken]

[quote=""Synchro""]Damn man, that thing is gorgeous.

I'll be putting a black CF (or fiberglass) hood on mine eventually. Possibly paint the trunk lid black as well. Dunno what it is about skunk stripes, but I've loved them since I was a kid.[/quote]

thought I read the cf/fiberglass hoods were actually heavier than stock?

[vr4]

[quote=""cbehnken""]thought I read the cf/fiberglass hoods were actually heavier than stock?[/quote]



all but the most expensive CF (vacuum bagged resin infused) are heavier than the stock aluminum hood.

that VIS on mine was about 5 lbs heavier than stock. (i bought it like that. i would have preferred the stock hood.)

[Synchro]

Serious? Wow. Didn't even pay attention to that. Heck, didn't notice it was aluminum. Too busy looking for places to stuff a turbo.

Just figured that with a hood that huge, there could probably be some weight savings there. That'll teach me to not read up on my own damn car.


Clutch is stiffer on the AP1 as well.


Every time I drive Jenny's car I get jealous at the tires though. Never an ounce of slop in the corners.

[vr4]

oh...i thought you knew.


NEVER press down on the stock hood. drop it from about 12 inches. pressing down on it dents it.

[Synchro]

LOL, good thing I do that already.



Oh yeah, forgot one of the biggies that I prefer in the AP1: a proper throttle. I don't like drive-by-wire. There's less clutter in the engine bay, but dammit, I want my cable-driven throttle.