Let's try Ford now.

[Jeff V.]

Yeah. Super low current stuff like the amplifier turn on signal. Still surprising to see. I don't think I've seen anything smaller than 20 gauge on the GM or Mitsu stuff I've worked on.

[DCIV]

Think they will ever make small blue tooth controllers at one end and one at the other and get rid of the wiring inbeween?


Coop

[Jeff V.]

Never. There's way too much potential for interference and data loss.

CAN bus (and a half dozen other network technologies) was supposed to solve all of this mess. Run power, data and ground to a module and then the module controls everything close to it. Your harness should be at most 4 wires for most functions. But that didn't happen for some reason. The amplifier is a good example. It's already on the CAN bus. Why does it need a separate enable wire? The rear doors are another good one. They didn't bother to put a control module in the rear doors, so there's a ton of wires running up to the driver's door and the BCM for lock and window control.

I'm sure it all comes down to cost. For as much as they complain about the weight and complexity of the wiring harness, it's still cheaper than putting local control modules everywhere.

[aaronatstate]

Some wire and a connector are much cheaper than more modules I would assume. Also I still think it makes send to have modules control everything in the car like the BCM does versus having more modules that control multiple things in an area.

[Chris GTO TT]

I know Tesla tried that with the cyber truck and basically wound up running CAT5 cable throughout the truck and had all sorts of issues still.

[Jeff V.]

The Cybertruck had some interesting stuff under the skin. It's mostly 48 volt power and ethernet for data. Both have been done before, but they're pushing it forward. Tesla's engineers are pretty impressive, and since they don't have as much architectural baggage as other manufacturers, they can try something interesting stuff. It just seems to get all fucked up once Elon's ambien and wine fever dreams come into play.

[Chris GTO TT]

Yeah there's definitely and advantage there and as you mentioned the drawback too

[aaronatstate]

I was once told by some engineers that if you want to move something between the frame rails it’s a million bucks minimum development cost. If you want to move a part of the frame itself, it’s a billion. I’d assume it’s not as drastic with harnesses, but my guess is they are all just iterations/revisions of current harnesses, and to develop completely new harnesses and software architecture would just simply cost too much on an established platform.

[Chris GTO TT]

Yeah. I'm sure that's why Ford hasn't drastically changed the F-150 frame since at least 2009 maybe even earlier.

[Jeff V.]

There are entire vehicle programs that don't cost a billion dollars, so I'm a bit skeptical of that number. But I'm sure it's still very costly to do.

[aaronatstate]

He was probably exaggerating some for sure, but it’s crazy how long they’ll keep something to save money. Though at some point, some executive will probably say change the systems architecture and it will have to happen

[Jeff V.]

Wheel is in, paddles are working. Didn't hook up the heat function. It'd be a lot of work that I'd just throw in the trash when I do the dash swap next summer. So it can wait for now.

I'm super happy with how it came out.

[Chris GTO TT]

That looks great

[DCIV]

Damn!!!


Coop

[Chris GTO TT]

When you do the dash swap are you going to the auto climate control

[Jeff V.]

I have an auto climate control panel, but it's pretty banged up. That's why I was asking you about how big the 21+ panel is. I really want one with the numbers, and the newer truck panel looks great. I'd also like to get the separate mix doors for the HVAC box, but I think that'll be way too much work. The Expedition has a plug and play panel with the numbers, but it's ugly and it has rear seat buttons that would annoy the crap out of me.

[Duck Vader]

I don't like the heated steering wheel on mine. First vehicle with it. Makes me feel uncomfortable holding the wheel. It's just not right. Lol

[Chris GTO TT]

I don't like the heated steering wheel on mine. First vehicle with it. Makes me feel uncomfortable holding the wheel. It's just not right. Lol

Heated wheel is interesting. I'd almost never use it since I park in the garage and the coldest it gets here is 'only' in the 20s.

I have an auto climate control panel, but it's pretty banged up. That's why I was asking you about how big the 21+ panel is. I really want one with the numbers, and the newer truck panel looks great. I'd also like to get the separate mix doors for the HVAC box, but I think that'll be way too much work. The Expedition has a plug and play panel with the numbers, but it's ugly and it has rear seat buttons that would annoy the crap out of me.

ah yeah it'd be nice to have. I still want the number on my dials but Ford jacked the price up from like $120 to $300

[aaronatstate]

Heated steering wheel is the best comfort feature in my RS and the wife’s Explorer. Super nice when it’s below zero.

[Duck Vader]

I run hot so maybe that's why I don't like it. Barely use heated seats (usually off within 5 min) and I keep temp at 66 or lower year round in the vehicles. It's middle of winter, we keep house at 65 at night, and I just use a sheet and still get hot at night.