Spyder Build Thread

[Jeff V.]

I can't find a picture of one right now. I have an Endeavor wheel in my box of parts at home. Now that I think about it more, this might not be the best idea. You'd have to pull the timing belt to install it, and that still doesn't solve the problem of the cam trigger.

Doing the 1G sensor housing might actually make more sense if you can get a custom wheel made.

[Hans_GZP]

I'm planning on doing an Infinity setup on my new 92 vr4 project. I saw the Saab or Volvo guys use a 1G DSM sensor and they have a wheel made for it. It would be cross compatible with the 3/S sensor. I'd definitely be more interested in keeping the hall sensor on the crank position.

Here's a link to the 1G setup. https://yoshifab.com/store/high-resolut ... -disk.html

[Jeff V.]

Don't the Saab and Volvo guys do 4 (or 5?) cylinder engines though? The crank pattern would probably work, but the cam position would be all wrong.

[Hans_GZP]

It's a 24 tooth wheel. Not sure if it will work, but that's what it is.

Of course I can't find the crank sprocket and trigger wheel to my 3.8 Montero engine. But the crank sensor is the same dimensions.

[Jeff V.]

Montero would be the exception to the post-2004 statement. Sorry about that. They didn't go to the new crank wheels until 2007, by which point we stopped getting the truck.

The cam trigger is the bigger problem. On the newer engines, it's actually a drum that connects to the back of the camshaft, with a sensor housing that connects to the head casting. It's not a sheet metal wheel on the cam gear any more. There's no way to adapt it to the DOHC head and cam.

I can't even use it on my Montero Sport 6G74. The sensor housing will attach to the head, but the camshaft is missing the bolt hole and alignment grooves for the drum.

[Jeff V.]

This is from Steve's truck build. The cam sensor is that 'wart' on the back of the left head, near where the brown rag is at on the chain.

[Jeff V.]

So the new crank discs have 32 teeth. Based on how they're spaced along with the missing teeth, that should correspond to one tooth per 10* of crank rotation.

The sensor is a little different too. It doesn't have a slot like the older ones do. It should bolt up to a 3S oil pump without issue though. These are off an Endeavor. 9G Galant and 4G Eclipse use the same parts. The 3 blade sensor is from a 3000GT. You'd need to cut a new notch into the 6G75 disc to use it on a 3000GT. The sensor mounts in a different location, so this changes when the sensor 'sees' TDC. Or you could get one of the overseas 2007+ Pajero crank wheels. I'm pretty sure they use the same pump orientation as the 3000GT.



Here's the Endeavor cam sensor. Galant and Eclipse use the same parts here too.



Waveform from the Endeavor tech manual.



And finally an 04-06 Montero trigger I picked up somewhere. It's a different design from the other 3.8L engines. This would output the same pattern as a 3000GT cam blade.



It may be possible to carve chunks out of the 3S cam blade so it would output the same signal as the 6G75 drum, but I've got no idea what kind of measurements it'd take to make that happen accurately.

[DCIV]

I'm pretty sure jeff thinks this stuff is easy as it always blows me away and would never thought of any of that stuff if I did a build.


Coop

[Jeff V.]

If it was easy, my Audi wouldn't be on jackstands and my truck would have a 6G74 or 6G75 installed by now.

Don't confuse ideas with execution.

[mjannusch]

Hmmm. Interesting. It'd be interesting to know if the sensor for that wheel actually fits properly on our oil pump. Even if the position of the disc isn't correct for our crank sprocket, that's fixable - but the spacing has to be right.

I was planning on using the Yoshifab disc that Hans posted. That's 24 teeth on the cam, so acts like a 12-tooth crank sensor.

Interestingly, I see that there's a cam/crank wizard selection for the DSM 1G/2G sensors which are only 2-tooth crank sensors and similar for the cam sensor to ours. I wonder if there's a way to hack another choice into the wizard parameters to roll your own config.

...Or, if Hans and I team up maybe we can get AEM to build the correct sensor configuration for the 3/S for us. They sure sold a lot of v1 and v2 EMS boxes to our platform, could make some sales of the Infinity if we can prove a solid setup.

[Jeff V.]

It'd be interesting to know if the sensor for that wheel actually fits properly on our oil pump. Even if the position of the disc isn't correct for our crank sprocket, that's fixable - but the spacing has to be right.

The discs are identical aside from the tooth pattern. I've got no doubt it'd fit behind the crank sprocket. My original plan for all these bullshit parts was to do a MIVEC conversion with the whole throttle by wire ECU on my Spyder.

I'll see if I can get to the spare 72TT we've got stuffed into a corner of the garage. The front covers and timing belt are off. I can do a quick test fit. The biggest problem is just getting to it.

[mjannusch]

[quote=""Jeff V.""]So the new crank discs have 32 teeth. Based on how they're spaced along with the missing teeth, that should correspond to one tooth per 10* of crank rotation.


[/quote]
That's a 36-4 wheel (36 teeth, 4 missing). Infinity doesn't have a pattern to recognize that, so we can't use it.

We can do (Crank, Cam):

4, 1
6, 1
8, 1
8-1, 1
12, 1
12-1, 1
24, 1
24-1, 1
24-2, 1
36-1, 1
36-2, 1
60-2, 1

[Jeff V.]

So much for that idea. :d ontknow:

[mjannusch]

This might just be complicated enough to make me go with a Series 2 instead and be done with it. The Flex Fuel features don't seem as strong as on the Infinity, but probably close enough.

[BATMAN]

[quote=""Jeff V.""]If it was easy, my Audi wouldn't be on jackstands and my truck would have a 6G74 or 6G75 installed by now.

Don't confuse ideas with execution.[/quote]

I think Coop meant it as a compliment. It's the internet you're allowed to flaunt every now and again.

[DCIV]

It was a compliment. I think jeff took it that way but was being humble.


Coop

[mjannusch]

I gave up on the AEM Infinity idea for now, and picked up an EMS Series 2 instead. I have an AEM X-Series wideband that I believe I've figured out how to MacGuyver it to talk CANbus with the Series 2. The EMS won't use the CAN data for O2 feedback, but I can see the exact value from the wideband instead of going through the conversion to analog and back to digital with the associated potential error/problems. It'll be interesting to see how far off AEM's O2 sensor wizard is off. Hopefully not much, but I'm not holding my breath.

Replaced the billet oil pump gears with new Mitsu gears, after hearing that Wayne's sets didn't quite work. That's a total bummer, but oh well...

[Jeff V.]

Didn't you also pick up a set of carbon syncros?

[mjannusch]

Yes, I did.

[DCIV]

Wait....when did we get carbon sycros? And where do I get a 5 speed set?


Coop