Will they fit?

[DCIV]

So this is deff gonna be a worth while upgrade for towing.


Coop

[DCIV]

You know what I wish was more available when trying to look up info is how much brake pad actually contacts the rotor. Yes, bigger rotor means bigger brakes, but honestly the pads I put on the wife’s car were in a semi shape of the rotor, the 2020 pad looks like a square. Now I get the 2017 has angled front and back. But it honestly doesn’t look like any more pad makes contact.

Yes pressure on rotor makes a difference. More pistons, better and equal pressure….but more pad on rotor equals more stopping power, can absorb and dissipate more heat…I also think it makes the biggest difference when daily driving as well.

Really curious how much actual pad touches the rotor. Or is my line of thinking here just flawed?


Coop

[vr4]

Stop. Overthinking. Things.

[aaronatstate]

[quote=""DCIV""]You know what I wish was more available when trying to look up info is how much brake pad actually contacts the rotor. Yes, bigger rotor means bigger brakes, but honestly the pads I put on the wife’s car were in a semi shape of the rotor, the 2020 pad looks like a square. Now I get the 2017 has angled front and back. But it honestly doesn’t look like any more pad makes contact.

Yes pressure on rotor makes a difference. More pistons, better and equal pressure….but more pad on rotor equals more stopping power, can absorb and dissipate more heat…I also think it makes the biggest difference when daily driving as well.

Really curious how much actual pad touches the rotor. Or is my line of thinking here just flawed?


Coop[/quote]

The swept area of the rotor is what you are describing I believe. It does indeed make a difference. However, at least when it comes to Brembo, a lot of their pads/rotors have the same swept area, and the diameter just changes, or the pad is extended to the sides. Here is what I found in all my research.

For "standard" Brembo kits based on their GT40 and GT60 calipers there are basically 4 pad designs.

4 PISTON
Pad is 1001 shape. This applies to basically all Brembo 4 piston calipers that use the GT40 caliper as the base (called GT40 because it was on the F40 first). This includes the F40, STi, Evos, Ford GT, S197 Mustangs, Viper T/A's, and more. As a note there is also a pad shape 968 which is similar in shape to the 1001, but 10mm less in height. Also another note, the Evo and STi use what is called a GT40 big piston caliper, which is the same shape, but instead of the 40/44mm pistons it has 40/46mm pistons in it.

This is the pad shape:


6 PISTON - Small Width
This one fits the 2013/14 GT500 and the 6 piston STi's. This is pad shape 1365, and it won't fit in the lager version 6 piston calipers.

This is that pad shape:


6 PISTON - Large Width
There are a few pad shapes that fit the larger width 6 piston calipers. I purchased all of these and test fit them, and they all fit in the GT350 calipers that will be on their way to Steve as soon as my kids aren't sick. There are some other pad shapes that fit but have slight difference for pad where sensors etc. but it's the same general shape and fits in the caliper. These all have the same "height" as the 1001/4 Piston pad but the larger width. From the rotor I have for a 13-14 GT500 the 4 piston and this 6 piston version pads fit, but they won't cover the full face width of the rotor (which is fine).

These pad shapes are:

1. 1382 - Same pad shape as 1405 pad, just thicker by 3mm
   • Nissan GTR
2. 1405
   • Cadillac ATS 16-19
   • Cadillac CTS 09-15
   • Camaro 12-22
   • Corvette 15-19
   • Challenger 15-22
   • Charger 15-22
   • Durango 18-22
   • Jeep Grand Cherokee 12-21
3. 1792
   • S550 Mustang 6 piston option non GT350/500 15-22

This is the pad shape (don't have the 1382, but it's the same as the 1405).

1405


1792


6 PISTON - Large Width and Large Height
This pad shape is 1853 and is what comes on the Mustang GT350 and GT500. The GT500 is a different number, but it's the same shape. This has a larger height but fits within the large with 6 piston caliper. Interesting fact, this pad shape is basically the same as what Brembo uses on their current carbon ceramic brakes like on the current Ford GT. Everything I see looks like the GT350/500 caliper and Ford GT caliper are the same. Basically it looks like the GT350/500 uses a "steel" version of the Brembo carbon ceramic brake rotor, which has a larger swept area, so they put a "taller" pad on to use all of that area.

This is the pad shape


Here is a comparison of the 1001, 1792, and 1853 pad shapes. You can see the "height" of the 1001 and 1792 pads are the same, but the "width" is different.

[aaronatstate]

[quote=""vr4""]Stop. Overthinking. Things.[/quote]

This, seriously. A good enough upgrade for you would be good pads/rotors with the stock calipers. Then probably all you would need is if you wanted to take the Tahoe brakes and put them on the Avalanche with good pads/rotors. That should be more than plenty for your needs I would think. If you want to put the 4 piston calipers on go for it, but you could run into mounting and clearance issues, so beware.

[DCIV]

[quote=""vr4""]Stop. Overthinking. Things.[/quote]

Half over thinking but half wanting to know things. Aaron’s post is super informative that I wouldn’t have gotten to read if I didn’t post like that. So I don’t think I was wrong. More so, you are wrong. I learned something, sorry you didn’t.



Coop

[DCIV]

Aaron, the 1001 and 1853 look basically the same amount of area that touched the rotor. Yet one is 4 piston and one is 6. For most people there is no way that the little bit of brake area would make better stoping for the cost? Am I wrong in that?


Coop

[Chris GTO TT]

[quote=""DCIV""]Aaron, the 1001 and 1853 look basically the same amount of area that touched the rotor. Yet one is 4 piston and one is 6. For most people there is no way that the little bit of brake area would make better stoping for the cost? Am I wrong in that?


Coop[/quote]

Yes and no.

Yes most people won't know or need the difference. There's more to it than simply swept area. Typically bigger calipers with more pistons have bigger rotors. This does 2 things one it makes the heat sink bigger and two it makes the 'lever' longer increasing brake torque. The brake torque limit is still the tires but more and more street cars are coming with basically race tires on them.

[DCIV]

[quote=""Chris GTO TT""]Yes and no.

Yes most people won't know or need the difference. There's more to it than simply swept area. Typically bigger calipers with more pistons have bigger rotors. This does 2 things one it makes the heat sink bigger and two it makes the 'lever' longer increasing brake torque. The brake torque limit is still the tires but more and more street cars are coming with basically race tires on them.[/quote]

But bigger rotors should have bigger brake pads? Guess I want as much brake pad as I can get. That’s what I’m getting at. If that means I need bigger rotors fine. If that means I just need bigger calipers than fine.

What I have been seeing when looking all this up is a lot of the Chevy group upgrade the rear caliper (possibly rotor, havnt dug in that deep) as the rear brake pads are almost as big in the front. That goes into brake pressure and I know usually most braking is front brakes on race cars….is it the same with towing? I would think you could have a bunch more rear with towing.


Btw: I really like where this thread is going.


Coop

[aaronatstate]

The swept area of the 1853 pad that goes on the GT350 is much more than any of the other pads. All of the other pads both 4 and 6 piston pads have approximately 57mm of radial pad depth. The 6 piston small width (STi and S197 6 pots) are 49mm of radial pad depth.

The 1001 and the 1382/1405/1792 have the same radial pad depth, but you can see the 1382/1405/1792 just extends the amount of pad to the side. The rotor face widths for all 4 pads are the same. Typically the 1001 with 4 pots is used on 355mm size rotors and the 1382/1405/1792 are used on 6 pots with 380-390mm rotors. That being said you can use (and Brembo sells aftermarket kits) to fit the 6 pot on a 355mm and the 4 pot on a 380mm rotor. The other thing that needs to be taken into account when deciding what size rotor and caliper you choose is the brake balance. I don’t want to get into that tonight but can break it down tomorrow (no pun intended).

[aaronatstate]

Brake Bias

To calculate the brake bias, you take the total area of the pistons on 1 side of a caliper, times the rotor diameter. You can add the pad radial depth to the calculation as well, but for a quick and general bias, I didn't do this. Here is a breakdown of what I found from my research into this.

Caliper Piston Sizes

• Front
  • Stock - 40/43mm
  • Viper - 40/44mm
  • EvoX - 40/46mm
  • 6 Piston Brembo Standard - 36/36/36
  • 6 Piston Brembo GT350 - 38/36/34
• Rear
  • Stock (both 1G and 2G are the same since you only use half the caliper) - 38mm
  • Evo 8/9/X - 40mm

Rotor Dimensions

• Front
  • 1G - 296mm
  • 2G - 314mm
  • EvoX - 350mm
  • 2014 GT500 - 380mm
• Rear
  • 1G - 284mm
  • 2G - 297mm
  • EvoX - 330mm

Brake Bias F/R
For this portion 1G/2G/Evo means the rear brake setup. Evo rear brakes mean Evo rear calipers with 2G rear rotors.

I only am going to list the 6 piston front brakes once, as 38/36/34mm pistons is only 6mm^2 more than 36/36/36mm so it's essentially the same.

Stock is stock obviously.

• Stock
  • 1G - 2.49
  • 2G - 2.53
  • EvoX - 2.46
• EvoX Front Caliper/EvoX Rotor
  • 1G - 3.17
  • 2G - 3.03
  • Evo - 2.74
• Viper Front Caliper/EvoX Rotor
  • 1G - 3.02
  • 2G - 2.89
  • Evo - 2.60
• Viper Front Caliper/380mm Rotor
  • 1G - 3.28
  • 2G - 3.13
  • Evo - 2.83
• 6 Pot Front Caliper/EvoX Rotor
  • 1G - 3.33
  • 2G - 3.18
  • Evo - 2.87
• 6 Pot Front Caliper/380mm Rotor
  • 1G - 3.61
  • 2G - 3.45
  • Evo - 3.12

Based on all of this, in my opinion the best option is the Viper front caliper with EvoX front rotors and EvoX rear calipers with 2G rear rotors. This gives a brake bias pretty close to stock, with a significant upgrade in stopping power.

[DCIV]

That’s amazing info that I’m digesting.

What do you think about these direct from stock brembo kits. Like the 2k 6 piston things that would have to throw your whole chart out the window.


Coop

[aaronatstate]

[quote=""DCIV""]That’s amazing info that I’m digesting.

What do you think about these direct from stock brembo kits. Like the 2k 6 piston things that would have to throw your whole chart out the window.


Coop[/quote]

My chart is specific for the 3S. The 6 piston options Brembo sells are covered by the last 2 bullet points.

Brembo offers a 355 and 380mm rotor option (the EvoX rotor is 350, but close enough to 355 it will be a negligible difference in bias), so it would be those last 2 bullet points basically.

[DCIV]

I don’t understand these brake pads. They just look like they are leaving a lot of rotor not in contact with the pad?



Coop

[ChargerX3]

Agreed. I have never owned a pair of pads that are purposefully ground down on the leading and trailing edges like that.

[DCIV]

Could they have needed 4 pistons so that they can put more pressure on a smaller area to get the same stopping distance? Burn through brake pads sooner? Sell more pads/rotors?


Coop

[vr4]

[quote=""DCIV""]

I don’t understand these brake pads. They just look like they are leaving a lot of rotor not in contact with the pad?



Coop[/quote]
It sure looks like those are euro pads, upside down, and ground to fit. Are they're any numbers on the pads or backing plate?

[DCIV]

[quote=""vr4""]It sure looks like those are euro pads, upside down, and ground to fit. Are they're any numbers on the pads or backing plate?[/quote]



From the original ad. Tonight I can take them out and see if there are any more.


Coop

[aaronatstate]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 84&jsn=507

Looks like most replacement pads are full faced.

[DCIV]

[quote=""aaronatstate""]https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 84&jsn=507

Looks like most replacement pads are full faced.[/quote]

So odd. I mean of course I was gonna replace the pads but I wanted to get an idea of how much area they are compared to the Tahoe to see if they would be a worth while upgrade.


Coop