Oh SHIT... Worse Case Scenario

[EvilNCarnate]

I am replacing my valve stem seals and my helper dropped one of the shims for the springs. We think it might have bounced down the front as its the #5 cylinder and it was the bottom one closest to the #3 cylinder... however it may also have dropped down the oil galley and if so I assume it went into the pan. So give me some opinions, expertise.... How FUCKED am I?

I have already went magnet fishing down the galley and came up empty handed, I am hoping it went down the heat shield for the turbo and just dropped into the dust shield for the tranny and starter, the positioning is perfect for it to go that way.

Also, how the hell will I get another shim?

[Jeff V.]

I assume by shim you mean the little wedge shaped keepers that lock the valve spring in place?

If you think it made it down into the pan, you might just have to leave it there. The screen in the pickup would prevent it from getting sucked into the oiling system.

As for getting a new one, I might be able to help you out. I've got a spare set of heads and could send you a couple of mine. Unfortunately, the best we could do is getting them there by Wednesday, if we overnighted them Tuesday.

That said, I know Vira has a scrapped 6G72 at her place. The block was seized. But the heads should be plenty good for parts like this.

Check your PMs

[bluej]

how strong a magnet do you have? you could try putting it under the pan and bringing it closer to the drain hole? do you have oil for a change if you dump what's in there? sorry man

[BleedScarlet]

is dropping the oil pan that hard?
I've only done with the engine out of the car, so i don't know about inside, but it doesn't seem that wholly undoable..

[Jeff V.]

is dropping the oil pan that hard?
I've only done with the engine out of the car, so i don't know about inside, but it doesn't seem that wholly undoable..

It's do-able, but it's a BIG pain in the ass.

[BleedScarlet]

seems like it's the easiest way out without risking total destruction. You could always hope you're lucky and it fell into the oil pan and take the 2 CC capacity hit

also, i don't think it'll fit through the drain plug.

Also, the drain pan is magnetic i believe, so a magnet won't do any good going through it..well, not enough good to get it out.

[SeanVr4]

i dropped one of them into my one head just like a week ago....but my heads are out of the car....i still cant find it....im hoping i do find it bc wont this mess stuff up?

[BleedScarlet]

not having it in means you can't run your engine...but losing it somewhere in your oil pan is just that, an unnoticeable loss in oil capacity, it's something you can afford to leave there until your motor needs rebuilding.

[CHAN]

Are you talking about the shim under the springs? You will never get a magnet down through the heads down into the oil pan. And if i recall from school there not magnetic

[Tujin]

Dropping the oil pan is really really not that hard. at least not vs completely destroying your engine and trying to fix it because you assumed it was in there and it wasn't.
Drop the oil pan. If its not in there, go from there.

[BleedScarlet]

you got nothin but time now that you've gotta wait for a new one anyways

'sides, once you drop your oil pan you can clear that mesh for the return and find out if theres any debris
and also check your bearings

win win (WIN)

[bluej]

ok, most of you seem to be talking about a shim, but i was under the impression he was actually talking about one of the keepers... which would in fact fit out the drain plug. and if the keeper is magnetic, a good strong magnet would definitely pull it over and out the drain plug if in fact it was in the pan.

do you have a shop vac? clean out the shop vac and then go fishing with that, maybe you'll be able to suck it in there.

[EvilNCarnate]

I can assure everyone the keeper (shim item that holds the retainer on the valve stem) is magnetic (ferrous metal). In fact they seem to be magentized on their own. We noticed they stick to the screwdrivers, springs anything metal and especially to other magnets. It makes putting them in a pain in the ass, you get them sorta in place and attempt to align them and if you use a tool they stick to it and all your work can go to shit in a seconds notice.

I also ended up losing a retainer as well so now I am out that part, this one I saw spring off and it went down the heat shield for the rear turbo and I am pretty sure its setting down on the manifold. At least I saw where it went. Also after that first loss I got smart enough to plug up the oil holes so nothing else could fall down. Good thing because later on we dropped another couple keepers. Thankfully they couldnt go far, they all seemed to gravitate towards those holes.

I am heading out to auto stores to check for spring sets and see if they have the keepers and right size retainers, also waiting to hear back from a local DSM guy. I just have to get this one spring put back in and start putting the engine back together. I plan to drain the oil anyway, I had bought all the stuff to change it, there is only like 600 miles on it but for 20 bucks and the fact I expected stuff to end up in it its worth the 15 minutes time.

I will drop the pan here in a few months when I change the motor mounts.

[Monochrome]

[quote=""EvilNCarnate""]I can assure everyone the keeper (shim item that holds the retainer on the valve stem) is magnetic (ferrous metal). In fact they seem to be magentized on their own. We noticed they stick to the screwdrivers, springs anything metal and especially to other magnets. It makes putting them in a pain in the ass, you get them sorta in place and attempt to align them and if you use a tool they stick to it and all your work can go to shit in a seconds notice.[/quote]

When you touch a piece of metal to a magnet, it makes that metal piece a little magnetic as well. Those keepers are so small, they become magnetic right away when you touch them with one. Your screwdriver also becomes magnetic for the same reason.

I would definately NOT start the engine with that keeper in there. You get some oil turbulence and that little bitch could go right up into your crank.

A magnet will probably not get that keeper out of the pan. Even if you get it to the drain plug, it'll be caught on the lip. The amount of time you'll spend fishing it out with a magnet will probably be greater than just pulling the pan.

Exhaust, t-case, starter, tranny stays, oil return lines, and drivers cross member are all you need to remove to drop the oil pan. Buy new return line gaskets and use RTV gray to seal the pan.

[BleedScarlet]

yikes...didn't know ya had to do all that....damn

[EvilNCarnate]

Got the parts I needed however I had to order the tensioner tool for the belt anyway so it will be down a little while. I didnt put a pin in the tensioner so I will have to reset it and probably a good thing since we noticed while disassembling that the belt had some slack and we actually were able to slide it off the cams so again... probably all for the best. Since I say if it had enough slack to slide off it also had enough slack that it could have jumped a tooth. While I wait for the tool I figured I would do a little work under the hood anyway. I am a little depressed (shocking for me) and I figure if I make this time productive it might cheer me up.

Plans...
Drop the oil pan, it had a minor leak from the rear of the seal that I needed to fix anyway so 2 birds with one stone. If the keeper isnt in the pan then that means its not in the engine (99% chance) and thats great. Also can check the pickup screen and clean it. Reseal the pan and alls well that ends well.

Vac Line Reduction - I bought some platinum cured silicone and I planned to do a vac line reduction. I was going to wait till the temps cooled some more but now is as good as any time I guess. Fill my evenings with busy time.

EGR removal - obviously with any good vac reduction you need to remove the EGR system. So it will come out as well.

Clutch assist line and Brake assist line - Looking at these I am wondering if their isnt any reason I cant replace them with some 10mm silicone as well. The rest of the system uses the same stuff so I think I might pick up some more and replace these to clean up the engine bay.

Paint - I repainted the battery tray and the black just sucks... So I figure it and whatever other bracketry and parts will get a little shot of paint to make them look "fresher".

Clean up.... pretty much everything will get a little simple green treatment to clean up the dust, grease, dirt, grime and make it just look cleaner.

Idle hands are the devil's play things....